Curse

subv2 · May 05, 2005, 12:20 PM // 12:20

hey i've been pvping with mesmer and so far it's been going alright, but i'm having trouble against warriors.. i just don't know what to do against them.
also, i dont want to gear my entire skill bar towards competing against warriors. is the only solution really running away and casting imagined burden? chaos storm has too high cooldown to be viable also.. any suggestions?
im talking about team duels, but if you want to give some advice about 1v1 thats fine also

mostro · May 05, 2005, 01:34 PM // 13:34

Although there are some mesmer skills that can help you deal with warriors (empathy, signet of midnight, ineptitude, spirit shackle, etc.) generally it is not worth it. Mesmers shine in shutting down other casters, so your potential would be wasted dealing with warriors. Let the other classes deal with wariors (necros are pretty good with their weakness debuffs for example), or use ward against melee to temporarily ignore them. On PvP warriors are usually the last to be killed anyway.

subv2 · May 05, 2005, 02:12 PM // 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by mostro

Although there are some mesmer skills that can help you deal with warriors (empathy, signet of midnight, ineptitude, spirit shackle, etc.) generally it is not worth it. Mesmers shine in shutting down other casters, so your potential would be wasted dealing with warriors. Let the other classes deal with wariors (necros are pretty good with their weakness debuffs for example), or use ward against melee to temporarily ignore them. On PvP warriors are usually the last to be killed anyway.

yes alright.. but suppose a warrior just comes up to me and starts attacking. what then? do i run? cast imagined burden and run? is it possible to tank to an extent with offensive spells and anti-caster spells?

if i could just avoid warriors altogether i would, but often they just chase me down until i die..

mostro · May 05, 2005, 02:37 PM // 14:37

My post was really geared in a team build where you can assign roles to the team members. In that case your role as a mesmer should be to disrupt other casters. If a warrior comes to you then let your teammates deal with him.

If you are playing in the arena where the match up is random, then you either need to depend on your secondary class skills or use some of those skills listed above. Ineptitude and Signet of Midnight can buy you some time with their blindness condition. Spirit shackle may be useful if you are seeing warriors with energy skills, and definitely useful against rangers.

What is your secondary class? If you have necro then you can use Shadow of Fear+Enfeebling Blood for AoE debuff. If you use an ele then try to find Wards Against Melee. If you have monk then you can try some of the protection spells like Reversal of Fortune or Guardian, or if you want to be fancy get the Shield of Judgement. Rangers have Escape, Lightning Reflexes, Throw Dirt, etc. The list goes on.

subv2 · May 05, 2005, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by mostro

My post was really geared in a team build where you can assign roles to the team members. In that case your role as a mesmer should be to disrupt other casters. If a warrior comes to you then let your teammates deal with him.

If you are playing in the arena where the match up is random, then you either need to depend on your secondary class skills or use some of those skills listed above. Ineptitude and Signet of Midnight can buy you some time with their blindness condition. Spirit shackle may be useful if you are seeing warriors with energy skills, and definitely useful against rangers.

What is your secondary class? If you have necro then you can use Shadow of Fear+Enfeebling Blood for AoE debuff. If you use an ele then try to find Wards Against Melee. If you have monk then you can try some of the protection spells like Reversal of Fortune or Guardian, or if you want to be fancy get the Shield of Judgement. Rangers have Escape, Lightning Reflexes, Throw Dirt, etc. The list goes on.

me/n, but i really only like the me skills :/ i've found that if i try to mix both together one of two things happens:
- my attributes are too thinly spread out
- i end up having in attributes in, say, blood magic when i only use 1 or 2 spells of that kind

and i don't like the soul barbs + hexes combo, i don't think its that good since i become significantly worse against casters, i need a lot of mana to cast many spells in a row and i need the character to be close during the time i cast these spells.

but thanks.. ill consider what you said.. i was hoping i could be versatile enough to deal with warriors to some extent, and also with casters. but no one seems to think thats the way to go.

i will experiment :/

Argent · May 05, 2005, 03:19 PM // 15:19

There is no 1v1, so let others deal w/ the warrior while u mess him up.

Ramus · May 05, 2005, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Ok, ill have to say. Mesmers and monks probably go down like paperdolls as a warrior. What I will usually do is sprint up to the mesmer as soon as the other team engages us, and then I frenzy and attack with everything I have. Usually 4-5 hits and the mesmer is down. The problem is they usually dont run, if they slow me and then hit the road ill be chasing forever unless I change targets.

As for Necros though... oh boy. If I rush a necro im one dead warrior.

Argent · May 05, 2005, 03:44 PM // 15:44

necros are the weakness of a warrior

mostro · May 05, 2005, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramus

Ok, ill have to say. Mesmers and monks probably go down like paperdolls as a warrior. What I will usually do is sprint up to the mesmer as soon as the other team engages us, and then I frenzy and attack with everything I have. Usually 4-5 hits and the mesmer is down. The problem is they usually dont run, if they slow me and then hit the road ill be chasing forever unless I change targets.

As for Necros though... oh boy. If I rush a necro im one dead warrior.

Yeah, mesmers skills are not so good against warriors. That is why it is better to use the skills on your secondary class. A Me/E carrying armor of earth and ward against melee can stand there all day in front of a warrior.

I would have to disagree regarding monks. A decent healing monk should be able to hold their own against a warrior because the monk can easily outheal the warrior's damage. And smiting monks have some nasty spells (albeit very situational) like Shield of Judgement. During the last BWE my smiting monk can take down 2-3 warriors by herself using Shield of Judgement + Balthazar Aura. Of course I would be screwed if someone on the enemy team uses Rend Enchantment, but hey...

Ramus · May 05, 2005, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by mostro

Yeah, mesmers skills are not so good against warriors. That is why it is better to use the skills on your secondary class. A Me/E carrying armor of earth and ward against melee can stand there all day in front of a warrior.

I would have to disagree regarding monks. A decent healing monk should be able to hold their own against a warrior because the monk can easily outheal the warrior's damage. And smiting monks have some nasty spells (albeit very situational) like Shield of Judgement. During the last BWE my smiting monk can take down 2-3 warriors by herself using Shield of Judgement + Balthazar Aura. Of course I would be screwed if someone on the enemy team uses Rend Enchantment, but hey...

I think it depends on the monks secondary class, if its a warrior or necro they can hold against me. If they are anything else they usually take 5-10 hits and they are gonners. The thing is, im a 2h hammer (War pick) with full warrior skills only, no secondary. So when I sprint in, frenzy, and use my +24 damage or more attacks (level 14 warrior right now) I can take out a monk before there second heal. This also of course depends if there team is paying attention to me doing it.

But I can almost always kill a monk and (sometimes suicide myself doing it) unless they are a warrior secondary.

Lazarous · May 05, 2005, 04:13 PM // 16:13

A few points here -

On a pure mesmer front, Spirit shackles+mind wrack+empathy will make a warrior kill himself while they're trying to kill you, and have the added benefit of being useful against casters as well (depends on the intelligence of the caster, of course, but is nearly as vicious as backfire). Use Distortion to keep yourself alive, or physical resistance or one of your skill disablers/interrupts like diversion or leech signet - take away warrior skills and they don't generally do much damage. Shatter enchantment is also generally a good way of piling on damage for warriors in arena because they seem to think mending is the end-all of healing skills (though its useful against someone using healing breeze as well).

For secondaries, anything that causes weakness is a liscense to ignore warriors. Enfeebling blood, enervating charge, that one hammer attack skill - if the warrior is weakened they will do essentially no damage to you, which is as good as killing them most times. There are of course the monk spells that make you invincible (mark of protection i believe its called), stances from the ranger and warrior line that increase your evasion chance greatly and...well, a whole lot of other stuff because you're talking about 5 classes here

.

Yes, as a mesmer you excel at killing casters - you don't however need your entire skill bar to accomplish this. Most definitely bring some defensive abilities like distortion or a secondary classes like enfeebling blood to keep you alive and let your group respond in case you get attacked even if you're going pure caster hate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ramus

I think it depends on the monks secondary class, if its a warrior or necro they can hold against me. If they are anything else they usually take 5-10 hits and they are gonners. The thing is, im a 2h hammer (War pick) with full warrior skills only, no secondary. So when I sprint in, frenzy, and use my +24 damage or more attacks (level 14 warrior right now) I can take out a monk before there second heal. This also of course depends if there team is paying attention to me doing it. But I can almost always kill a monk and (sometimes suicide myself doing it) unless they are a warrior secondary.

Monks are as a rule the most durable class unless you have some pretty hefty enchantment removal. Reversal of fortune, mark of protection, healing breeze are three examples of skills they have along that vein. Also as a rule, warriors have non-existant enchantment removal, so the monks worst enemy tend to be necros, mesmers and other monks using scourge healing and smiting prayers. Hitting them with something that causes disorientation and then frenzying is always a good option, but theres only one elite warrior skill i know of that has that effect and its a bear to use.

Laz

Lazarous · May 05, 2005, 04:21 PM // 16:21

(edited to merge)

Ramus · May 05, 2005, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazarous

Monks are as a rule the most durable class unless you have some pretty hefty enchantment removal. Reversal of fortune, mark of protection, healing breeze are three examples of skills they have along that vein. Also as a rule, warriors have non-existant enchantment removal, so the monks worst enemy tend to be necros, mesmers and other monks using scourge healing and smiting prayers. Hitting them with something that causes disorientation and then frenzying is always a good option, but theres only one elite warrior skill i know of that has that effect and its a bear to use.

Laz

It may just be my crazy head-first style of play, but I really never have trouble soloing monks unless they are warriors. I usually go in and whack em.

Im sure if it was a great player they could take me out, but im talking general pvp in the arena.

Lazarous · May 05, 2005, 07:09 PM // 19:09

general pop in the arena are probably using the monk prebuilt, which is very far from optimal in terms of its skill selection.

Laz

Ramus · May 05, 2005, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazarous

general pop in the arena are probably using the monk prebuilt, which is very far from optimal in terms of its skill selection.

Laz

Thats pretty much what I figure.

tomcruisejr · May 05, 2005, 08:13 PM // 20:13

empathy, wastrel's worry, leech signet, shatter delusions, shatter enchantments, energy drain, energy tap, etherfeast = dead warrior monk.

with short time regens and thrifty energy requirements and constant flow of energy, you can cast cast and cast.

VividDream · May 05, 2005, 08:17 PM // 20:17

You don't even need mind wrack... spirit shackles + group support = dead W/anything

adam.skinner · May 05, 2005, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Spirit shackles isn't going to stop adrenaline. You'll want Sympathetic Visage or Soothing Images for that.

wongba · May 05, 2005, 09:40 PM // 21:40

i played w/ a build during beta that had the signet of midnight and plague touch. it was fun and kept the warriors off my back. i can't really tell how effective i was at everything else, but warriors would get tired of missing and leave me alone.

Eej · May 05, 2005, 11:18 PM // 23:18

A proper Illusionary Weaponry build completely changes the Mesmer dynamic. It's easier for me to kill Warriors 1v1 than anything else. Of course, on the flip side, the only thing that really damages me severely are Elementalists (not other Mesmers), since my stances can't block magic.